Some Simple Rules
Last Updated on Saturday, 9 February 2008 10:58
Written by Brian!
Saturday, 9 February 2008 10:07
Most people who work in comics are comics fans. It only makes sense. I mean, you don’t become a auto mechanic if you hate cars. And this is what’s wrong with most comics. They’re written and drawn by people who think comics are doin’ just fine. If Atomic Robo has any kind of advantage, it’s that its co-creators kind of hate comics.
See, Scott and I collected comics in the early ’90s because that’s when we were stupid teenagers. The state of the industry and the benchmark for quality in those days eventually pissed us off and we both gave up on comics. It would be years before we’d come back to them, and it would be a slow and grudging effort.
We enjoy the idea of comics and take great pleasure in a number of titles from a number of companies and creators, so maybe it’s unfair to say that we “hate” comics. More accurately, we hate the reality of the state of American comics today; what comics have become in an overall gestalt sense; what people come to expect out of a comic. We see so many titles making the same mistakes that pushed us away from comics in the ’90s, and the tragedy is that these are wholly unnecessary elements and easily remedied. But it feels like no one ever does.
So, when we were brainstorming on what we wanted Atomic Robo to be, we came up with a list of rules. It was nothing formal, but things would come up in conversation, like:
“Man, I hate it when comics do X.”
“I know! Let’s never do that.”
“Agreed.”
So, a little while ago, I put together a list of things that Team Robo guarantees you’ll never see in one of our comics.
In no particular order, Team Robo promises you:
No angst: Loading characters up with angst was a revolutionary move on the part of Marvel Comics back in the ’60s. I haven’t looked at a calendar today, but that was four decades ago. There are other emotions and motivations available to characters. Atomic Robo is not a comic that will be 100% sunshine and jokes, it would idiotic to portray a complicated life of 80+ years as a nonstop party with scientists, but we aren’t going to delve into melodrama either. You are not going to see Robo mope about his lack of emotions, or pine to be human, or throw a tantrum over daddy issues, or whatever childish nonsense passes for characterization in most comics these days.
No “cheesecake”: This is nothing more than Scott and I having the audacity to treat women like human beings. I mean, come on, 99 times out of a 100, there is no reason at all to frame a panel from the perspective of a girl’s ass. Grow up already.
No reboots: They’re frustrating, unnecessary, and a jarring reminder that all fiction is a thinly veiled series of lies. The major events of Robo’s lifetime were plotted years before we worked on the first page of the first issue. Anything Scott and I add to that has to fit organically into the existing framework. If it doesn’t fit as naturally as if it’d been there all along, then we skip it and move to the next idea. This is a much better solution than making a deal that the character would never make with the devil he’d never deal with to change “one” thing that alters the entire universe in ways that no one in charge seems to fully comprehend or address. Ahem. Everything that happens will fit into the larger mythos; everything that happens will happen for a reason; and nothing that happens can be “undone.”
No filler: This one’s pretty simple. Why should we devote a month of our short lives to creating an issue if it isn’t worth reading? And then why should we try to sell you an issue that isn’t worth buying? The main source of filler issues seems to be due to moving set pieces from the aftermath of one event to set up the next one. Since we have no reason to follow Robo’s life as a linear chain of events, we’re free to jump straight from one adventure to the next. Maybe Robo fights a sea monster. Maybe we follow the lives of Action Scientists when off duty. But it ain’t filler.
No delays: This one’s even simpler. The industry’s gotten so bad about delays that they have become the norm. No one is surprised any more when a comic is delayed. And when a comic has no delays, there’s that unspoken “yet” or “in a while” tacked at the end. Red 5 Comics was constantly praised, praised, merely for delivering books on time. What kind of industry is this? Think about it for a minute. Imagine if you were lauded by co-workers and supervisors just for showing up to work on time. It’s ridiculous. We could make more money if we gave you 12 issues a year, but we take a break between each mini-series to build up a buffer on the next one. We’d rather deliver nine issues a year exactly on time than promise you twelve issues and deliver one of them late.
Pick up any Big Two title and you’ve got a 50% chance of finding one, some, or all of those rules broken between its covers. Pick it up for a year, and it’s a 90% chance. This is what’s wrong with comics today. I mean, honestly. What kind of maladjust goes out of his way to read melodramatic borderline misogynist stories with incomprehensible continuities that constantly shift when there’s a story at all if it shows up on time?
It’s not that people don’t like what mainstream comics are about. NBC’s Heroes proved that. So it’s got to be something else. Do you really think Heroes would’ve taken off if every scene involving Claire or Nikki was shot at ass- or boob-level? If the events of previous episodes changed with every new episode? If the show occasionally aired an hour, or a day, or six weeks late?
You can blame cable television, and DVDs, home entertainment systems, and PC and console games for the decline of comics readership. I don’t doubt for one second that those contribute to the problem. But, maybe, just maybe, people sought other forms of entertainment because it is a rare comic that treats itself or its readers with respect.
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It still boggles my mind how it’s even possible for teams of 5-8 people to work on a book and not get it done on time. Maybe their reasons could’ve been justified in some way, but repeating the same mistake in a plethora of other titles is just retarded.
Working months and months in advance certainly has its advantages.
I’m constantly amused by the notion that Korim and I were once horrendously traumatized by the amount of crap that came with working on an Image-published comic, and now after a few years we’re back in the biz again where the standards for comic book production seemed to have have dropped further lower. How’s that for masochism?
I think it’s awesome Atomic Robo has self-contained stories in each issue. As a series it can go on as long as it takes, and stop without threads left loose and untied.
It might sound a little wishy-washy but I like seeing stories completed regardless of how they end. I did my best Mexican jumping bean impression when titles like The Losers and Y the Last Man had ended.
Sometimes I do wonder if certain comics read so well their quality of content is easily compared with a best-selling-award-winning novel 10-30 years back. Suppose anyone who reads a certain title and enjoys it, or rejects it with a possibly contrived but seemingly convincing argument, is automatically deemed “cool”. The same thing happens with films, and videogames to some degree. The niche cliche? I certainly think so.
I must admit that despite coming into comics through characters like Batman, I no longer find any enjoyment reading the monthly titles of my favourite characters, and that’s a little heartbreaking.
Luckily, there’s Red 5, Avatar and Vertigo titles to pick up the slack. Kudos all!
Most of the titles I read aren’t mainstream superhero comics, so I don’t run into that situation very often.
Then again, I like several Dark Horse titles, but they don’t exactly make their reputation on timely releases.
I hear more and more people stating a preference for TPB’s versus monthly comics, and I have mixed feelings about that trend.
I just want to say how much I appreciate the “NO CHEESECAKE” rule. (Where the heck did that term come from, anyway?) It means that I can feel perfectly secure knowing that I can hand my AR issues to my 12-year old brother and not worry about what he’s going to find in there. It’s a rarity to find material that is both fun and clean anymore.
I’m amazed. I’m in college and I’m a writer. I don’t think about the sheer amount of absurdity going on in comics today, but this list has made me think about it anyway.
If I turned in a paper late, ANY paper, there would be penalties. Sometimes it’s a few points. Sometimes it’s an entire grade. Sometimes the professors don’t take late papers at all, and damn the consequences. I turn in anything late, and I will pay. I knew some comics had delays, but I didn’t think ALL of them did.
I don’t like cheesecake either. I appreciate a beautiful woman. I appreciate a beautifully drawn woman. I don’t appreciate an deeply exaggerated woman in what the artist thinks are sexy poses. I’d get laughed out of my classes if I wrote a space marine fighting aliens in lingerie. It’s stupid.
Anyway, I like Atomic Robo. Stay classy, Clevinger.
I don’t think they all have delays, but enough titles have been delayed enough times in the last ten years that readers now expect any title to be late.
Titles that have never been delayed aren’t immune to this either. They’re merely “not delayed yet” in the minds of most readers.
I knew delays were a problem, but I didn’t know it was quite so widespread until I started reading more reviews and reader reactions to a wide range of titles. The number one gripe? Delays. The number one concern about the future? Delays.
At the comic store I work at, we don’t even pay attention to release dates anymore. Someone asks when New Avengers is coming out, the response’ll be, “I dunno, running late again.” It is absolutely amazing how widespread it’s become. Also, when covers like the JLA one you guys parodied (#10 I think) come through, it’s just embarrasing to have that on the shelf.
No cheesecake? Come on, Robo’s walking around topless in like half of every issue!
Wow, how true all these rules are, especially the one about delays! I have very (un)fond memories of one limited-series comic that I adored that took close to two years…to put out EIGHT COMICS! Issues 1-6 came out (reasonably) on time, but then issue 7 didn’t come out until close to a YEAR later. After it came out, I had to re-read the first six issues just so I could remember what had already happened, it’d been so long. And that’s just sad.
I’m SO glad you and Scott are breaking free of these unfortunate comic conventions and putting the fans first by giving us prompt, classy, well-paced, well-plotted comics. It’s a very welcome change indeed.
[...] be my thing, but I want to associate myself with pretty much everything Brian Clevinger writes here. Especially the “no cheesecake” rule. I love myself some beautiful people, and I like [...]
I’m glad you pointed out that “Action Scientists off-duty” isn’t filler. A lot of people have the silly idea that anything that doesn’t progress the main storyarc is filler, regardless of whether or not the story advances character development or says something interesting or funny in its own right. It’s that sort of idiocy which leads to ten-episode-long fights in Dragon Ball Z or whatever, which ironically deserves the name “filler” a lot more than whatever it’s replacing.
Rob
I enjoyed the heck outta this post!
It’s like somebody drilled into my head, poured in a whole mess of “Ya got that right!” and hi-fived the brain hole!
I agree.
And I wish I had something more profound to say.
You guys are so right about this. I used to read Batman and Spiderman and a bunch of other comics. Around high school, I realized that the story arcs were virtually the same plotlines with different villains. The only comic I ever read any more is “Savage Dragon” because I like the characters.
Maybe I should give this “Atomic Robo” a try.
I agree with you 100%. I am really, living proof of how screwed up Marvel and DC are. I really just cant read mainstream comics anymore. I’ll pick up the occasional hardback which my friend recommends but really I just cant bear to see the insane crap DC and Marvel do to the characters I grew up loving. It’s just so sad because I still love Captain America, Punisher, Spiderman, Batman, Superman, the Hulk, etc. I talk about them with my friends all the time, and I spend hundreds of dollars a year on nerdy pursuits, but I wont buy the comics about the characters I love. I don’t want to read the crap they do to them.
Well, keep in mind Joe, that those comics were pretty goofy when we were kids too. We just happened to be . . . kids, back then. I mean, I tried watching Robotech again when they released it on DVD a few years ago. Wow what a shit-storm! Should have left those happy childhood memories alone! But I still totally get what you are saying. I’m still in love with the characters, but have almost no interest in the comic books themselves.
Lots of great comments here that I want to add my 2-cents about;
1.) TPBs- frankly I like the trend in comics to move towards the trade paperbacks. Regular comics are expensive, a pain in the ass to store, and once they are bagged and boarded you almost never read them again.
TPB’s also get the comic book creators out from under the heel of Diamond Distributors. Despite what the lawyers say, Diamond is a monopoly. And they take a large chunk of plublisher’s profits while making the selling of comic books really difficult. Having trouble ordering Atomic Robo? We’ve got them. But that’s not what Diamond tells your retailer when they try to place a back-order. TPBs move comics out of the dusty and dank comic book shops and into the bookstores. Much better exposure.
2.) Cheesecake- There is a time and place for everything. Brian and I are adults. We’ve seen naked ladies without paying for it, and I may have even seen internet pornography once.
But the way most female characters are written and drawn is just offensive to me. And embarrassing. 9 times out of 10 its just juvenile fan service. And its of the lame Jr. High School, Maxim magazine variety. Lame all around.
I’m not opposed to sexy female characters. Not at all. but that has to be one of many facets of her character. The Bruce Tim version of Batgirl for example -She’s sexy, and badass, and smart, and confident. She’s what I try to make of my own character Lucy Nocturne -she’s the kind of girl I’d want to date, and the kind of person I want to be.
I’m also not opposed to sex, nudity, or other “adult” situations in comics -but it needs to be in the appropriate comic book. Not ones supposedly written for children.
3.) Delays -God I hate these. I’d rather do 9 quality comic books each year and get them out on time.
When I came back to comic books after a ten year break I as amazed to see how big a problem this had become, and there’s really no good reason for it. There is also no single reason for it -some times its lack of coordination on the editor’s part, other times its the artist or writer who’s to blame.
I recently did some work for Marvel because an artist fell behind schedule. But the editor of that book was on the ball, knew that he had a situation to take care of and took steps to get his book out on time. And he did.
Well, just be careful you don’t overdo panel closeups of the side of a person curled-up hand while they’re looking forward. That’s another thing thats been done to death!!!
[...] you haven’t been checking in on Robo.com regularly then you may not be away that we follow Some Simple Rules when putting a story for Atomic Robo together. I would go read that before continuing with this [...]
And this is why Atomic Robo is one of the best damn comic books in years! Keep following these rules and I’ll keep buying (and kicking my friend in the groin until they too buy it)
I’m new to buying and reading comic books, but I’m currently following three different comics at the moment. 1. Atomic Robo (love it) 2. HALO uprising (like it so far) 3. Invincible IronMan (cause I like the movie) and I’ve noticed what you promised never to do happens to be in 2 of the marvel titles I’m following, like delays (especially with halo) and cheesecake (again, mainly with halo, beleive it or not). I love the atomic robo series so far. Keep up the great work!
[...] writing articles. Would you like to subscribe to our RSS feed?The guys at Atomic Robo compiled a Few Simple Rules to guide their work. …maybe it’s unfair to say that we “hate” comics. More accurately, [...]
This article makes me a little sad for the future of comics. I've always loved comics and still do, especially DC. And as much as I don't what to admit it, you guys make a valid point. I'm an aspiring comic book artist and writer, and if I get my own comic it will interesting and tasteful.
Although, I have a question, and I'm sure it's probably self-explanatory. When you say no cheesecake does than mean no sexy outifts at all? I've recently toned down the level of skin my female characters show. I think its still sexy and tasteful is that ok?
That's understandable, I guess.
[...] beautiful. Something else that I really liked was that I Read Comics talked about, and linked to, Some Simple Rules. Another thing that really stood out was that this particular podcaster only spoke when she [...]
[...] manifesto from the creators pretty much laying down the rules to how they plan to do Atomic Robo (http://www.atomic-robo.com/?p=211). This is something I always love to see because it means there is a certain level of forethought [...]
[...] manifesto from the creators pretty much laying down the rules to how they plan to do Atomic Robo (http://www.atomic-robo.com/?p=211). This is something I always love to see because it means there is a certain level of forethought [...]
Finally someone who cares.
I think we're of the opinion that "sexy outfits" are just dumb and unnecessary unless it serves a specific point for the narrative or makes logical sense for the character.
I just discovered Atomic Robo and loved it. Its everything I love about comics, the art, writing and concepts are even right up my alley. But especially now that I’ve read your rules, I believe you are my new heroes. Thank you good sirs. I will be following you both on Twitter.
Mad props dude. Your rules should stand as a shineing example to general-audience comic book artists everywhere.
A no cheesecake rule?
You know, I’m tempted to buy this comic just by this rule alone. When writers at Marvel tell women to stop reading their comics if they find them sexist, it’s tragically a breath of fresh air when a comic says it has no cheesecake and doesn’t suffer for it.
But you’ve also summed up why I don’t read comics from the Big Two. Comics are hard enough to get where I am without delays, and seeing ridiculous reboots or retcons or -whatever- just makes it too ridiculous. After One More Day I’m too scared to ever read Spiderman again, and I love him as a character.
Anyway, I appreciate you guys trying to bring some deceny and class to this industry. I’m gonna try and get an issue as soon as I can!
Hope this helps your search!
These are awesome and with these rules most (if not all) comics would be better off. However, you missed one thing. Atomic Robo deos not do this, it's less stupidity and more bad writing/drawing (and atomic robo is neither).
I mean when they have the main character thinking/narrating what happens. You know, “Oh no, the caves collapsing around me! Must… reach… the boat in time!”. Its the sort of thing that really bad actors do and it drags the comic book down into bad acting. I know its not possiable to show perfectly whats going on in a comic book but there are better ways of doing it without resorting to cliche/bad lines.
I was a big Spiderman fan back in the early 90's, then I stopped buying for almost ten years. Why? Two words. CLONE SAGA. It was one thing to do crossovers with all four titles for major events, like “Maximum Carnage”, but they started doing it for EVERY ISSUE. You had to buy four comics every month just to follow the story that made no sense and wasn't going anywhere anyway. Eventually I realized I just didn't care any more. I got back into it when I noticed JMS was writing, and I started loving it again. Then “One More Day” happened. I am now boycotting ALL Marvel comics and merchandise until they un-F*** up Spiderman and get rid of Joe Quesada. Just because he's got mother and wife issues doesn't mean he should be screwing up every Marvel character by forcing his neuroses on the readers.
Great example of this “deep angst”:
I was reading a “What If” comic today, “What if the Impossible Man got the Infinity Gauntlet?”
Infinity Gauntlet, in my eyes, was awesome. There was no angst, no drama, merely a problem, an unsolvable problem, and they had to beat it. And the Impossible Man? How can this not be great? And what do I read but a plothole-riddled sob story about the Silver Surfer, instead of what should be a very intertaining miscreant with god powers.
Long story short, you guys make comic book fans everywhere proud. Keep up the good work.
[...] publishers, much less from a semi-obscure smaller house. The guys behind the comic published their manifesto a couple of years ago, and it proves that they didn’t just stumble onto a good comic, they [...]
I already own Robo TPB #1, but based solely on how much I approve of your cheesecake rule, I’m buying the rest. Comics as a medium won’t grow up until we have equal numbers of female fans & creators, and that won’t happen without some basic respect.
ps. I was sorry to hear that you became a fan of comics in the 90s. I was lucky myself to be a fan only up to 1989, and missed the abysmal “hypermuscle and giant guns” years that really warped a lot of young minds.
Rule number three makes the loudest statement for me. I’ve got like 3 issues of captain america where he dies, and two where spider-man bites it. I feel that now, it’s just some sort of adrenaline surge to get readership up again because everyone KNOWS that they’re not going to cancel the comic because the hero dies. He’ll always turn out to have a spare clone body, his soul be in another dimension, or forming a cocoon underneath the brooklyn bridge only to burst out perfectly fine.
Rebooting comics in my opinion is a cheap cop out on actual story progression. Peter Parker was actually evolving as a charater ( he was a science teacher, the ” Other” arc expanded his super powers) when all of a sudden, someone at the marvel studios got cold feet and decided to POOF make it all not happen and revert him to the daily bugle-photographer-aunt-may schmuck that we’ve been living with for 40 years. IMO, it was a devastatingly bad show of creativity that such leaps and bounds had been taken with a character only to be, quite literally, erased from existence. I call bullsh*t, and if atomic robo is standing above all that nonsense with great writing, art, and most importantly, PRINCIPLES, i will gladly support it.
Ah, sorry for the rant; I got a bit carried away…