Should have cut this by 50%, easy.

Last Updated on Thursday, 4 December 2008 10:51 Written by Brian! Thursday, 4 December 2008 10:48

I don’t know if I’m qualified to talk about writing comics, but that’s never stopped me before.

Major Spoilers had a very favorable review of Dogs of War #3 (and another excellent review of #4 even if his reaction to the layout is a little silly). But in the first link there he says…

I don’t want this to come off as a dig on Clevinger, because it totally isn’t, but I find Atomic Robo stories are better when the dialogue is kept to a minimum.

I can’t take that as a dig, as it’s my opinion you should keep your dialog to a minimum. That doesn’t mean shaving lines you need or going out of your way to make characters silent. It means making sure that every line of dialog has to be there. If you don’t need it, or if you can say the same thing in fewer words, hit that backspace button and make it happen. Characters who speak in big clunky expository blocks of text are my biggest pet peeve in comics writing. People do not speak in paragraphs. There’s a handful of fan favorite creators I simply can’t stand because of their tendency toward that kind of writing. No one talks like that, why are you writing like that? Those aren’t characters, those are loudspeakers through which the author explains what just happened and what’s about to happen. ARGH.

Of course, I say all that, but I’m the guy who wrote page 12 there. How do I live with myself! Well, partly because everyone in the world believes their rules apply only to other people, but also partly because it fit the character. Ivan’s been isolated for 30 years and he’s a little crazy. Crazy people ramble. Plus, it’s balanced by Robo’s follow-up dialog. Robo’s line is there for everyone whose eyes, like mine, glaze over and roll like rocket powered pinwheels when they see that much dialog spewing out of one character. It’s a one-line summation of what Ivan is too insane and egotistical to say in so few words.

So, basically writing for Ivan was a simple matter of focusing my blogging style through the lens of an insane nuclear scientist HACHACHACHACHA.

Okay, I guess there’s exceptions to minimalism, but you need a reason to indulge in verbosity. Like with Ivan, he’s full of himself, a little crazy, and who knows when he last spoke to someone. He’d built up a lot on his chest, you could say. If you’re doing these huge wads of text all the time and/or for a variety of characters, you need to ask yourself if it’s really the characters who are talking like that or if you just like the sound of your keyboard.

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  • Josher
    (3) Delaying story advancement
    By putting the padding in, stories are also lengthened. A standard story might run along the lines of : (1) Villian has plot to kill hero with a trap, (2) hero receiving alert of villain activity, (3) hero crashes in on villain into trap, (4) hero escapes from trap, (5) hero fights villain, (6) villain is captured/flees. Fairly straight forward and done in one issue. But if lots of dialogue is thrown in, the length could easily be quadrupled or quintupled and take several issues to resolve. (1) hero falls into trap, (2) villain taunts, (3) hero worries about situation, (4) villain taunts, (5) hero wangsts about how he'll never fix his unfixable problem, (6) villain taunts, (7) hero worries about the people depending on him, (8) villain has potty break, (9) henchmen taunts, (10) looks around and comes up with idea, (11) villain smokes a cigarette and taunts, (12) hero ponders idea and if it could actually work, (13) villain tells his story and has dinner, (14) hero starts to implement, (15) villain laughs maniacally, (16) hero makes the attempt to escape the trap, (17) catch the escape (and part one of the fight) next action(dialogue)-packed issue!
  • Josher
    It also allows the writers to come up with fewer ideas and fill the issue of chatter. Anybody who reads Wheel Of Time knows what I'm talking about..!

    In conclusion:
    http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_cont...
  • Josher
    "Characters who speak in big clunky expository blocks of text are my biggest pet peeve in comics writing."
    Perhaps you could add that to The Promise
    Though there are probably some direct reasons for having large speech paragraphs, it reduces the amount of effort, time ($) and creativity needed to produce the comic.

    (1) Static scenes
    If several people are together and they're doing a lot of talking, it makes for simple drawing with static objects, random passerbys, and the same location being drawn from different angles (including near a woman's butt). The number of locations is reduced and there is only a minimal level of action needed. While a high action scene usually involves lots of motion, debris, damage, maneuvering.
  • Josher
    (2) Padding (the issue)
    Ever hear the phrase "talk less and say more?" Now think of the comic book as a story being 'talked' in graphic form. By putting lots of dialogue in a comic, the action is reduced and events take longer to play out. A group can meet to 'discuss' a situation, suggest plans, recap history, analyze personalities, bicker with each other, gossip, trade rumors, gradually reveal tidbits of the situation, and rehash it all; and not do anything of consequence. All the while taking up space and crowding out action. It also takes up space where drawing would ordinarily be. Text is easy to correct, but each and every line needs to be carefully drawn or the picture looks rather bizarre.
  • our review of issue #5 is now available at Major Spoilers (www.majorspoilers.com).
  • Yeah, Eric was right to give you my badapple account, but he had no idea that I never check it (they get so much spam, it's useless). I finally replied from my regular account the other day but if you didn't get it, drop me a line. We can probably fit that bad boy in the trade.

    But, yeah, this whole Vol 2 "controversy" is a tempest in a teacup. Fan reaction has been overwhelmingly positive and only a minority have been thrown by it. I guess Scott and I just weren't used to people not "getting" Robo and we underestimated how some folks would not be able to adapt to a change in direction. It's a shame, because these are solid, fun comics and you really have to work at it to make yourself not enjoy them.

    I just want to tell them to sit back, relax, and let Robo take them for a ride.
  • Csantangelo
    Yea I hear you there, I have a few accounts but only 2 I actually use and one of them is getting close to being abandoned because spam sucks. I think the next volume of robo should be robo vs the damn spammers. Ok Ok so maybe Ill stick to 3d animation and leave the writing to people that are actually good at it.

    Good to hear from you though, and my son would definately freak if he saw my 3d atomic robo in your comic. I'd buy a dozen if you guys sign em. :)

    5 minutes of comic book fame here I come. lol. JK

    I'll shoot you an email.
  • Csantangelo
    Whatsup Brian,

    I have to jump in here to support Atomic Robo volume 2 so people dont get the wrong idea. It is vastly superior to the first volume and I have been itching with each release to see where you guys take it. Anyone whos curious about it should pick it up and support this team. My son and I love the action and the humor guys. Keep up the great work.

    Oh and by the way my 3d atomic robo I made is going to be killed by a steampunk mythical chimera. Take that! Thats what you get for not responding to my hard work, asshole!!!! :) JK

    Chris
  • Well, I and my group of people that I've got reading the book all seem to still like it. We're all just waiting for more!
  • No offense, but you're out of your mind. I could understand a disappointment with the first two issues since most people were probably expecting us to zig when we zagged and it can be hard to take one's preconceptions out of one's judgment. That's fine.

    But #3 and especially #4? I don't even know where to begin. "Rushed through"? Not to be an asshole, but are you even reading these things? Scott's work in Vol 2 is leagues better than his best work on Vol 1 (and I loved his work on Vol 1). In particular, this issue featured some of Scott's most detailed art and complex action to date. "Less and less polish"? How is that possible when it's one of our best looking and tightest plotted issues? Every page of #4 was filled with mythos-building, action, or comedy, or action and comedy. And "not very much substance"? Bwuh? I mean, the comic has always been about a robot punching crap, it's not Shakespeare. But #4 tied back to Vol 1 and hinted at Helsingard's larger role in history; it had Robo getting thrashed by monster men of the Third Reich -- if we crammed any more awesome into those 22 pages they'd have burst into flames.

    There was more to Vol 1 than "Stephen Hawking is a bastard". Not every Robo story is going to be a laugh-a-minute. His life would be a ridiculous farce if that were the case.
  • Not trying to piss you off man, it's just that your complaints don't make sense.

    I find it more likely that the real source of disappointment is that when you first discovered Robo is was this new and amazing thing. Vol 2 didn't capture that same sense of discovery because it's impossible to do that. It's amazing when plutonium is discovered the first time, but no one cares about the second guy to do it.

    Seriously, take a deep breath and read those Vol 2 issues again without trying to compare it to that initial "rush" of discovering Robo the first time. You'll find there's a lot of fun there and you're doing yourself a disservice if you jump ship now.

    A similar thing happened to me with Iron Fist. At first it hit me like a freight train and then I started to fall out of love with it. But then I stopped trying to make it live up to that first "WHAMMO" and found the later Bru/Fraction issues just as fun and cool as the early ones.
  • Not trying to piss you off man, it's just that your complaints don't make sense.

    I find it more likely that the real source of disappointment is that when you first discovered Robo is was this new and amazing thing. Vol 2 didn't capture that same sense of discovery because it's impossible to do that. It's amazing when plutonium is discovered the first time, but no one cares about the second guy to do it.

    Seriously, take a deep breath and read those Vol 2 issues again without trying to compare it to that initial "rush" of discovering Robo the first time. You'll find there's a lot of fun there and you're doing yourself a disservice if you jump ship now.

    A similar thing happened to me with Iron Fist. At first it hit me like a freight train and then I started to fall out of love for it. But then I stopped trying to make it live up to that first "WHAMMO" and found the later Bru/Fraction issues just as fun and cool as the early ones.
  • Couldnt_Even_finish
    Sorry its just one opinion and yes I was reading the book. I wasn't trying to flame, but some fans other than myself are feeling the same way and yes they have read it also. Just figured I would voice a few fans opinions and not start a pissing contest. Good luck with everything.
  • Go figure. I thought #4 was easily the best yet. I'm not getting the no content low quality bit. I thought it was the most polished, and it definitely had the most content out of dogs of war. Volume one was a collection of short stories. Some had a lot of story others were just a lot of fun. Dogs of War is a building story with plenty fun to back it up.
  • Couldnt_Even_finish
    Sorry guys but IMO robo #4 shows its being rushed through with less and less polish with each release. I cheer for the underdog but I am disappointed at dogs of war. Theres just not very much substance here. #5 needs to have some serious impact or be honest Im jumping train. :)
  • ScottV
    I mostly agree with the minimum dialogue rule, although I enjoy large amounts of dialogue if it is written with a tacit acknowledgment of its own cheesiness. Kurt Busiek does this in JLA/Avengers; he's deliberately playing to an older, more cornball style of superhero comics writing to fit the over-the-top nature fitting an inherently fanboy-centric story.

    In general, "realistic" dialogue is not really much of an ideal. Atomic Robo dialogue moves at a great pace and is perfect for reading - but no group of people could ever cram that much wit into their battles. It's not realistic, it's ENTERTAINING, and that's the friggin' point.
  • "and another excellent review of #4 even if his reaction to the layout is a little silly".
    Hey, what can I say... :D
    Am enjoying the series, let's hope there is a volume 3!
  • Scott!
    Maybe not silly, but it *is* the same exact layout style we used for the previous 3 issues. :)

    get used to it though. I like this storyboard panels much better than the traditional 6 box grid, or the visual insanity of most "dynamic" comics.

    I do agree though, that pages where all 4 panels are 3.5 inches tall -it is boring. So these days we're playing with different heights and squeezing in 5 and even 6 panels when we can -you'd be surprised what mixing up the height of the panels does.

    It's pretty cool.
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