Obama On My Mind
Last Updated on Monday, 14 September 2009 10:52 Written by Scott Wegna Monday, 14 September 2009 10:42
I’m back from the Pittsburgh ComiCon and as always, it was a great show. Stan Lee brought in a nice crowd, we had a very well placed booth, and I met some new people. So all in all a success. On the social side, things were pretty tame compared to past years due to the Raddison being closed and everyone being scattered between five different hotels, most of which not in walking distance of each other. But the Rad will be back in April, so no fear True Believers!
Unfortunately for most of the weekend though I was sort of checked out mentally. Because the day before I left for the con I spent a very uncomfortable hour on the phone with my rep at NEBA -the New England Business Association. What NEBA does (in theory) is allow small businesses and the self-employed gain access to health care by allowing us to act as one large group and bargain for lower prices like corporations and state agencies do.
I’m gonna warn you now that this is not my typical blog post. I spent most of the morning debating whether or not to even write it. It’s got none of the usual sarcasm, silliness, and mock outrage that these things usually contain. I tried to do that. I really did. But my head’s just not able to access that space right now. So you guys who read this blog for a quick laugh or to escape the boredom of the moment might want to check out here and come back next week.
Health insurance has always been the one major drawback to being self-employed in this country. Even with NEBA’s help health care for my daughter and me has typically cost me two or three times more than it ever did when I worked for someone else. Assuming that most of you guys who read this blog either work for someone else or still live at home that’s probably something of an abstract concept for you. So imagine taking your cell phone bill, your cable bill, and your average car payment. Now instead of paying them once a month, pay them twice a month. Or to put it another way, take your rent/mortgage and double it, then increase that monthly payment by no less than $100 every year. It sucks eggs. Especially since that will only get you the most rudimentary of insurance plans, meaning that you pay more than most people for doctor visits, prescriptions, and hospital visits. Or to stick with the home analogy, the double payment doesn’t cover busted water heaters or leaky roofs.
The solution that most freelancers have for this is brutally simple -don’t get health insurance because you can’t afford it, pray nothing bad every happens to you, and if it does, go to the emergency room where they charge you six times the going rate. Since you probably won’t be able to pay that bill it drives up the cost of insurance for those who do have it. Until they can’t afford it anymore either.
But what are your options? In America? None.
Before you take a shit on the self-employed, refer back a few paragraphs and ask yourself this; could you afford to pay your rent if it suddenly doubled?
I feel that I speak for most of us in my situation when I tell you that I work my ass off to put food on the table and keep a roof over my family’s head. You can certainly argue that my job is way better than most, but you can’t deny that I put in almost double the work hours of your average gainfully employed person for a lot less money. I enjoy being a productive member of society, and I actually enjoy paying my own way. I take a great deal of pride in the fact that I do what I do and there is a real sense of accomplishment in doing it on my own.
What I have a real problem with though is a system that is unjust in the extreme and at its core is very, very broken.
The idea that socialized medicine is free medicine is so fundamentally stupid that It’d be laughable if so many people didn’t believe it.
I have friends and family in the UK, Canada, Germany, and Switzerland. All First World countries with government run health care systems. They pay for that health care via their taxes. None of them feel that there system is perfect, but they universally tell me that it’s damn good in their experiences, regardless of how American media often portrays them. With a few of them I’ve actually sat down and run the numbers and even when my health care cost less because I worked for someone else it still cost more than in these other places. And looking at numbers alone it works just as good as our system in terms of illness treated, diseases cured, and average life spans. The big difference is that everyone gets coverage, not just those lucky enough to be able to afford it.
Until last Friday I was one of those “lucky” people. While it meant that I had to give up many things and make many compromises in my life at least I knew I was covered. I didn’t mind that I had to give up cable, I don’t miss taking vacations, and I am pretty well resigned to the fact that I rent a shit-box house in a fly-speck of a New Hampshire town because I can’t afford to live anywhere else. At least I had piece of mind that when my child got sick she would be taken care of.
At least until last Friday.
Now we have passed through the looking glass, and Wonderland is fucking terrifying.
Now we have to chose. Do we go without insurance, squirrel that money away for an emergency, and pray like fuck that we never have one? That’s one option. I wish I could tell you that putting the Widget and me on Dorinda’s plan that she gets from her job was a solution -but that would actually cost us more because her employer doesn’t cover employee’s families. They just let you buy into their shitty plan at full cost (about twice what we can afford). And then there’s option number three -keep paying what I pay now, but drop the Widget from my plan and hope that nothing happens to my beautiful little girl. So my options are basically: Insane, Impossible, or Inhuman beyond fucking comprehension.
Nine year ago on July 27th I was diagnosed with a disease that if left untreated would have killed me. That’s not a supposition. It’s just medical fact. It took months of treatment and many more months of recovery, both mental and physical. In a lot of ways that experience was one of the greatest of my life. Because until you really look at death it can be very hard to appreciate being alive. How many twenty-four year olds really understand that their lives are going to end, and it might happen a lot sooner than expected? Because when people say “life is short”, it’s not a fucking joke. It makes you appreciate things. It makes you reevaluate things. It gives you the courage to understand that as an individual your existence really is meaningless, unless you take the steps to give it meaning. It helps you have the balls to take risks and ,(as horrifically corny as it sounds), follow your passions.
If I’m diagnosed with cancer in 2010 I will die. It’s as simple as that.
Currently only two of the four people who work on Atomic Robo have health insurance, despite the fact that we all work long and hard as our jobs, pay our bills, and try to give a little back to the world in the form of what we create. In a few weeks it will be just one member of the team. And if our Canuck leaves Canada to be closer to a person they care about, it will very likely be zero.
No one is asking for handouts. Institutional charity is bad for society, and bad for the human spirit. But what people are asking for, and should be demanding, is an affordable system that everyone has access to. We live in a country that happily pissed away billions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives on an illegal and pointless war that has benefited no one (except the military-industrial complex), but we can’t see the point in spending a fraction of that on making it possible for sick people to get treatment.
Whatever compromised half-measures Obama manages to crap through Congress is almost beside the point for me right now. Nothing will take effect for several years, and my emergency is right the fuck now.
I don’t know what to tell you guys. I’m sorry this was a bummer of a blog post. The Internet in general, and this slice of it in particular, is pretty much all about escaping from reality. But the real world is a fucked up place and it’s where we live physically if not mentally.
If I’ve offended anyone I guess all I can say is, fuck you. Feel free to stop reading my book, and I hope you get to walk a mile in my, and all the rest of our, shoes some day. The way the economy’s tanking that day will probably come pretty soon.
I promise I’ll be back next week with the usual inane dribbery. It certainly is a lot more fun to write those blog posts than it was this one, and if I can make a couple people chuckle it makes me happy too.
RANDOM SPLENDOR
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You had mentioned your Heath Care Issue at Pittsburgh and it got me to thinking about something you might look into – I have heard that if you become a member of the National Cartoonist Society or the Graphic Artist's League [the two names I heard mentioned] that part of the membership is access to their more reasonably priced Group Health Plans. Back in the 1990's I was paying $365 / month for 3 of us. Before I ever got the chance to look into what these two groups offered, the comic book business crashed and I went back into the manufacturing sector and picked up employer supplimented health care. I don't know, after membership costs, it might be a wash, but you could check into it.
Good luck,
e.
It is a bad system and it's getting worse all the time. I'm lucky enough to be able to work a job that doesn't provide health insurance and still keep myself and the girls on my wife's plan. She works for a local Connecticut HMO, in small group administration and they are seeing more and more of the smaller groups limit coverage for their employees or chose to discontinue offering health coverage. Being able to survive sickness or other health issues should be a right in any civilized country. I consider the taxes I pay as the cost of my citizenship, and it's time to quit screwing around and put people first again and quit pissing and moaning about what it costs.
Well said Scott. I'm still curious why so many people who rail against insurance companies as controlling and conniving are so against government-run options that might make these companies more accountable to their customers.
And the sad realization that getting sick either means bankruptcy or death is just offensive to the ideals of this country. We've lost the “promote the general welfare” bit of things.
I doubt you're going to find anybody in the comments here that disagrees with you, Scott…and if they do, fuck 'em; but instead of nodding our heads in agreement, can we ask, “how can we help?”
At the most crass level, if you were to get sick and end up having to stop doing Atomic Robo, I would lose my favorite book. I don't want that. More than that, I read this page, and you (and Brian, and everyone else involved with Robo) seem like a hell of a guy. So just on a personal level, I'd hate to see something bad happen. You mention that anything Obama succeeds with will take years, and this is likely true, but it sounds like you have some immediate need. Is there anything that we, as your fans, can do to help?
Is there a public, state option for the Widget? Something that might feed off of Medicare or Medicaid?
Health care is a human right. It is not a privilege. Having a profit driven motive behind *health care* is an abomination in the eyes of any civilized person. I rant about this particular topic repeatedly on my YouTube channel. The excuses I hear about why our 'system' should remain as it is amaze me. I have had a conservative look me in the eye and tell me that those Americans without health care should just die. How do you find common ground with that?
Apparently being outside the 'system' means you deserve death.
“I have had a conservative look me in the eye and tell me that those Americans without health care should just die. How do you find common ground with that?”
You ask him how much he likes his bailout money?
I had a longer comment before, but the server hiccuped when I hit post, and it's gone, as is the moment.
Short version: similar experiences (though I went absolutely unemployed for a year straight, with only the occasional freelance job, and one good job with a company that went bust really dang quick), but I'm in VT. Our kids are covered through Dr. Dynasaur (via VHAP, via state Medicaid) until their 21 — unless we make too much money (not a danger anytime soon), then we'd have to go off this plan.
My wife tells me there are similar options for your daughter in NH, but she's not sure if your NEBA plan cancels that out.
“I have had a conservative look me in the eye and tell me that those Americans without health care should just die.“
And this guy is probably incredibly proud of what a great Christian he considers himself. Pathetic.
It's funny how sometimes events in other people's lives put your own things into perspective.
I found out on Thurs that I'll no longer have a job come November. My wife has the money maker job in our family and her employer offers no benefits, so the MAIN reason I work where I do, is for health coverage. In fact, I've consistently worked back-breaking and/or mind-numbing monkey jobs, that I hate, in order to get benefits for my wife, two kids, and myself. It's a soul crushing state of affairs. I toil away daily doing mediocre work that I never have my heart in, just to get what these companies call a perk. A perk that you can't survive financially without and sometimes you can't survive physically without.
We're all getting older. I've probably been to the doctor more in the last 2 years than i had in the last 5 prior. So I myself, have realized first hand how important it's been that they mercilessly rape my check every two weeks. The other end of things is that I've had to make a choice to never fully pursue anything that I'm passionate about- in fear of losing the steady paycheck and health coverage that we can't survive without. So in between being exhausted from the regular grind, I'm forced to try to fit-in the things I can in order to feel creatively fullfilled. But these interests (that everyone calls hobbies) these things that I love and that I'd LOVE to be doing for a living (or at least take the chance and give it a shot) are forced onto the back burner.
I don't know if I wrote all that so I could put my own shit in persepective or if you could use mine to do that for yourself. But either way, there it is.
Just watched Michael Moore's SICKO yesterday. I'm a Brit. Are you Americans all crazy? Obviously not, but if we suddenly had our FREE healthcare taken away we would kill those in power NO DOUBT about it. There would be hand to hand fighting in the streets. Yet you Americans just roll over and accept it. You need to stand up and fight in your country for once. You booted us out – first sensible thing you did – now you've got to take on your own government and win one for the Gipper (whatever that means). Your government has you enslaved with FEAR!
And Scott if you ever get sick come and take a break in the UK – I'll put you up and you can see what a proper healthcare system can do for you. I wish you luck.
Next cranky old teabagger I see bitching about stopping socialism, I'm gonna be sorely tempted to cancel their medicare and social security with my bare fists.
Hey, debating issues is fine, but let's not stereotype here. It doesn't help anything.
Hey guys, thanks for all the support/advice/concern.
MPD57 -I might take you up on that offer. Hope to god I never have to though. I'd rather my next visit to the UK be for pleasure.
Matt- and therein lies the fundamental flaw in our system. Why is it attached to our employer? We're the only ones who do this and it makes zero sense. I got stuck at the shitiest job I've ever had for an additional year+ because I got sick and couldn't leave or I'd lose the coverage, and my new policy wouldn't cover what they consider a Pre-existing condition. Which basically means if you've ever gotten sick before joining them and it comes back again, it's not their problem.
Like I said, our system is unjust and deeply flawed, at every level.
Tetsubo- NH HealthyKids.com. The Widget either has to go 6 months with no insurance to qualify, or if I can pay $200 a month she can join after 3 months of no insurance. $200 alone would be awesome, but add that to what my HC options will cost for just me and we're back into the “we can't afford to eat now” zone. Why makes no sense to me is why on earth does the child have to go uninsured? Why can't I just sign her up and get her started Oct. 1 when the current policy ends?
And here's a perfect example of how easy things could be. HealthyKids has been around for years. For some it is free, but for us it would cost a few hundred a month. Why is this system not implemented on a national scale? $600 a month for a family of 3? I could do that. It's not staggeringly more than most people pay through their employers, and for me its a tax write-off so I am fine with paying a bit more.
But somehow paying for a government plan that doesn't tie you down to any particular job or force you to live in a particular place is considered socialism. Personally I'd call that freedom. (Queue the patriotic music and fireworks!)
Benj- I appreciate that. Its nice to have someone say “please chill out and your your brains”. Especially since mentally I am more of the mind set of “Fuck it, debate is dead, lets kill them all and let Medicade sort them out.” I mean basically, what Tetsubo's Conservative said to him is pretty much how I've come to feel about the anti-reform people. I hate saying that, because all my life I've been able to see both sides of an argument, loved debate, and reaching the occasional compromise.
But in reviewing the last ten years of my life I can't think of a single time I've ever engaged in a conversation with an anti-reformist/Republican/conservative where it didn't break down to “Because you disagree with me you are a stupid Liberal and you are wrong.” How do I debate with that?
Man, that sucks.
America fucked up in *so* many ways…
Anyway, the Swiss-style isn't government run, there is insurance here but we chose the plan/provider, not the employer.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front.html?siteSect...
Maybe next time Marvel offers some work you look into an “exclusive” contracts, one that still lets you work on Robo of course…
Good luck.
“But in reviewing the last ten years of my life I can't think of a single time I've ever engaged in a conversation with an anti-reformist/Republican/conservative where it didn't break down to “Because you disagree with me you are a stupid Liberal and you are wrong.” How do I debate with that?”
I have to say that repeatedly using the term 'tea-baggers' when you know that it's really offensive, insulting their religion, and calling them stupid in a majority of your blog posts really doesn't speak well for your side of the aisle's ability to debate politely either.
That said, I think I break from the conservatives when it comes to health care, and a few other issues.
Health Insurance:
One of the most difficult aspect of striking out on your own is finding health coverage for you and your family. The following sites are a great collection of health insurance related resources, not unlike having your own HR department.
Health Insurance:
Artist's Health Insurance Resource Center
Online Health Insurance Quotes
The following organizations offer insurance
to their individual members:
American Craft Council – property/casualty insurance
American Institute of Graphic Art
College Art Association
Graphic Arts Guild
American Society of Interior Designers
Fractured Atlas (for inexpensive basic coverage)
Working Today: health insurance for freelancers, and other independent types
Great rant, Scott.
I actually worry about what may come through legislation for your sake. If they make it mandatory that all parents MUST cover their children (which I feel should be required, due to my own personal reasons and beliefs) then you'll be impacted sooner rather than later. If anything, that law passing might force you into starvation or bankruptcy rather quickly.
Second, there might be an expansion of medicaid to cover lower waged workers. I think this is a must, since unemployment is so high. But if that's the case, you might get on that sooner as well.
Ideally, I'd like to see a “Progressive” for health insurance – where companies compete for your business by offering the lowest rate. Or a “Lending Tree” for health insurance. That kindof thing would do wonders to drive down costs and benefit more people by being nationally recognized/enlisted.
I feel kindof petty for being fully employed somewhere where I can get access to health insurance, but have elected NOT to have it. It costs too damn much, is a hassle to actually go anywhere I prefer going for treatment, and would be gone if I lost my job. So I'm in the “save money and hope nothing bad happens” camp. Yet, I've never felt more free.
I don't know. I think we should have a public option, and better options with less waste, and someone should smack the profit derivative right out of health care CEO's heads – but until those happen – if ever – what options do we really have? As you pointed out, not much, if any.
[...] Creators | Atomic Robo co-creator Scott Wegener puts the healthcare-reform debate into terms that many free-lancers, unfortunately, can appreciate: "If I’m diagnosed with cancer in 2010 I will die. It’s as simple as that. … Currently only two of the four people who work on Atomic Robo have health insurance, despite the fact that we all work long and hard as our jobs, pay our bills, and try to give a little back to the world in the form of what we create. In a few weeks it will be just one member of the team. And if our Canuck leaves Canada to be closer to a person they care about, it will very likely be zero." [Atomic Robo] [...]
As someone who has voted on both sides of this (a)isle o' crap we call American government and as a Christian, I grow supremely weary that somebody in a political coversation eventually gets to “Republican = Christian = fascist idiotic warmongering elitist”. Please, don't paint with such broad strokes. I know stereotypes exist because, to some degree, they are true, but not all Christians are like those who've pissed you off or let you down or hurt you. I'd apologize for them if I thought it would matter, but they, like everyone else, are screwed up human beings. The most unfortunate part is that they're dragging those who also identify with Jesus down with them.
Let's be honest. This is a super-complicated and messy issue as Scott's very heart-felt and visceral post illustrates primarily because we're dealing with (as mpd57 said) people's fears and people's lives. Putting my, now 5 month-old son on my state-employee health care plan has just about priced my wife and I out any real financial mobility. It was the only realistic option because we were afraid of what MIGHT happen if we didn't. Now we're afraid we won't be able to make things work financially. We're talking about fear and my super-cute baby boy, here. And, as we've seen plenty of times in politics here in the great ol' U S of A, fear is a great tool for maintaining the status quo, which is really what I deeply want to see change.
As I said, I've voted both Republican and Democrat in my lifetime and I voted for Obama because I sincerely hoped things could change, but I personally don't know that the plan as it is currently written is the best thing for the country in the long-term. Stacking yet another high-ticket, untested government program on top of this despicable, corrupt, and shaky industry (hello, banking and auto, anyone?) just seems short-sighted.
I know people need health care. I know that we need to fix what is screwed up with health care. I'd just like to do it RIGHT instead of RIGHT NOW.
And, Scott, as a parent, I hate that this system has you to the point where you even have to think along these lines. I hate it so much. I agree with you that there has to be a better way that tying heath care coverage to employer. If the university I work for (and LOVE working for; I don't feel stuck in this job because it provides health care) and all other health care providing employers gave its workers the money they contribute to coverage and let us go shopping, maybe we'd have a more progressive (or GEICO) approach. I don't know. I bet that little gecko could teach us a thing or two more.
I just know people already on (US) government-run heath care programs, and they ain't so great. There's a saying on the rez: “Don't get sick after June (because the funding's run out by then).”
“I have to say that repeatedly using the term 'tea-baggers' when you know that it's really offensive,“
It's what they called themselves…?
“insulting their religion,”
Technically they're the ones insulting it by using a text that talks about compassion and making sacrifices to help those less fortunate as an excuse to let people die of preventable diseases.
“and calling them stupid in a majority of your blog posts”
There's few polite words for people who actively seek to ignore reality.
“really doesn't speak well for your side of the aisle's ability to debate politely either.“
The left continues to be hamstrung by assuming people on the other side of the issue are also making honest attempts at communication. The right gave that up somewhere in the Clinton years.
So, we're a little frustrated that what has become the American version of the BNP has been allowed to control every issue and level of discourse when they'd be a laughing stock anywhere else in the world.
By it's nature, by the very definition of the word, a conservative world view is about conformity. It's about not changing the status unless absolutely necessary. That what we have *now* is the best and shouldn't be changed. Some in the movement even look to the past as some idealistic utopia. So when you personally encounter conservatives that act in a lock-step manner, after a time you start to think of them all doing the same. I'm not saying this is right nor justified, but it does happen. And that has been my personal experience. From conservatives that follow Limbaugh, to conservatives that are highly educated, the ones I have known have had a very narrow range of opinions. So it is my, possibly wrong, habit to lump all conservatives into the same basket.
I would go so far as to say that if you aren't in that conservative basket, you might not in fact be a conservative. I've often said that Bill Clinton was the best Republican president within that past fifty years. Maybe that will help explain my own personal point of view.
Health care is a human right. The US is the only industrialized nation that does not possess a universal health care system. It is amoral and is financially crippling our nation. If we were to adopt one it would provide universal coverage AND save our nation money. Which is why I am constantly confused why 'fiscal conservatives' haven't hopped onto the band wagon. Americans love a bargain. And a single payer system would be a bargain. It would also be the moral and ethical thing to do.
Our current system leaves 46 million Americans out in the cold. Scott and his daughter may well be among them shortly. That same system lets 18,000+ of our fellow citizens die. For the crime of not being able to afford health care. A profit driven system that benefits from human suffering is morally reprehensible. This isn't about the government doing something to us, it's about the government allowing us to help each other. About Americans helping Americans. Because you never know when you will become one of the people that need that help. It is in your best interest to support a system that provides a safety net for all of us.
Brian: I couldn't agree more about the horrible job Christians in America have done in caring for those who need care. As a Christian, I honestly believe that the lack of compassion and caring for the poor, homeless, ill, etc. is the greatest sin on the American church's back. I honestly can't figure it all out, but I believe it's root lies somewhere in a selfish bastardization/perversity of patriotism, politics, and religious identity. While looking “to the past” might not be the best approach given tetsubo's comments, I think back to a time when people in need sought out the church for help and received it and I wonder how we screwed it all up so, so badly. I am honestly ashamed of how “we” have acted.
But, the fact that I feel that shame doesn't mean I can just dismiss the principles on which stands my objection to the adding another government-run to the existing foul brew. I can't get behind piling more bureaucratic mess on top of existing bureaucratic on top of profiteering-greed on top of prejudice on top of… well, you get the picture. I want a complete overhaul, not an expensive bondo patch. I guess that doesn't qualify me for the “conformist” definition of conservative, but there's got to be a better way than what we have and there's got to be a better way than just slapping something else on top of what we have.
tetsubo: Not that I assume your post to be about me, but if you consider me to be conservative (I consider myself to be more of a libertarian, but whatever) because I'm a Christian and I am concerned about the cost, I hope I have shown you that not all have a very narrow range of opinions. I honestly believe in the human capacity to think outside of the box and come up with an elegant, fantastic, caring solution. I just don't think the proposed plan is that solution. It sure ain't a bargain (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoo... – skip down to the $2,500 savings part). And clearly it isn't a single-payer system.
One of my friends brought up the inalienable/human right perspective on twitter (yeah, having this debate with unlimited characters is hard enough… 140 is a bitch!) and I just can't shake the notion that that means that all humans have the right to live, to breath, and to not have their living-ness and breathing-ness interfered with by another. It doesn't mean that government-run health care is the best and only way to ensure people don't die. It's not black and white (only, in a lot of cases, this health care thing is about black and white and brown and… never mind). It's not a) government-run health care or b) people die. At least a quarter of the tens of millions of Americans out in the cold are not, in fact, left out in the cold as they qualify for existing government programs but, for reasons equally diverse, don't access the care provided. Why? Because of poor management and communication on the part of our government-run case systems? Because the existing systems are crappy anyway? Another 20% make more than $70,000 annually but don't have jobs that provide it and they don't buy it on their own. Why? Because of the profit-driven nature of insurance companies? Because of the cost of malpractice insurance + the cost of getting an MD + elitism = it's too damn expensive? Another fifths have recently come to the states (both legally and illegally). What about those who have yet to or don't pay federal income taxes? Can they “buy in”?
It's. Complicated. Let' get it RIGHT.
Hey Scott, you blog was mentioned on CBR's news section:
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/09/co...
Not going to bother quoting and responding to the rest of your comment Brian, as that's just disagreeing with each other and not going to change, but:
“It's what they called themselves…?”
No it's not. They had “Tea Parties” as a reference to the Boston Tea Party of fame. They do not call them selves “Tea-Baggers.” That's entirely a name given to them initially by initially by bloggers trying to make fun of them, and picked up by the media, possibly ignorant of its other use. But no, they don't call themselves tea-baggers.
Though I do have to point out,
“The left continues to be hamstrung by assuming people on the other side of the issue are also making honest attempts at communication. The right gave that up somewhere in the Clinton years.
So, we're a little frustrated that what has become the American version of the BNP has been allowed to control every issue and level of discourse when they'd be a laughing stock anywhere else in the world.”
How funny it is that that's pretty much exactly (with a couple names changed) What a lot of the Right thinks of the Left… Just saying.
@Ryan: No, that's what they called themselves. That why there was a joke to be made. That's why they don't call themselves that now, they finally caught wind of the joke. If you think for one second that the GOP would let a gaffe like that slide you are literally out of touch with reality.
“How funny it is that that's pretty much exactly (with a couple names changed) What a lot of the Right thinks of the Left… Just saying.”
Maybe you've never heard of the Southern Strategy, Karl Rove, or Newt Gingrinch? I don't know. The leadership on the right is pretty open about how they're not interested in debate or intellectual honesty. They barely pretend to be a part of the political process any more. :
Not going to bother quoting and responding to the rest of your comment Brian, as that's just disagreeing with each other and not going to change, but:
“It's what they called themselves…?”
No it's not. They had “Tea Parties” as a reference to the Boston Tea Party of fame. They do not call them selves “Tea-Baggers.” That's entirely a name given to them initially by initially by bloggers trying to make fun of them, and picked up by the media, possibly ignorant of its other use. But no, they don't call themselves tea-baggers.
Though I do have to point out,
“The left continues to be hamstrung by assuming people on the other side of the issue are also making honest attempts at communication. The right gave that up somewhere in the Clinton years.
So, we're a little frustrated that what has become the American version of the BNP has been allowed to control every issue and level of discourse when they'd be a laughing stock anywhere else in the world.”
How funny it is that that's pretty much exactly (with a couple names changed) What a lot of the Right thinks of the Left… Just saying.
@Ryan: No, they called themselves “Teabaggers”. That's why there was a joke to be made in the first place. That's why they don't call themselves that now, they finally caught wind of the joke. If you think for one second that the GOP would let a gaffe like that slide, you are literally out of touch with reality.
“How funny it is that that's pretty much exactly (with a couple names changed) What a lot of the Right thinks of the Left… Just saying.”
Maybe you've never heard of the Southern Strategy, Karl Rove, or Newt Gingrinch? I don't know. The leadership on the right is pretty open about how they're not interested in debate or intellectual honesty. They barely pretend to be a part of the political process any more. The party's entire message has boiled down to thinly veiled codewords for racist rhetoric.
Lastly, for not commenting on “the rest” of my comment because you disagree, the only thing you didn't touch was what I mentioned about the Bible. Is it actually your position that the Bible does not advocate compassion toward your fellow man?
[...] Obama on my Mind [...]
I’ve actually sat down and run the numbers and even when my health care cost less because I worked for someone else it still cost more than in these other places. thats it's
I’ve actually sat down and run the numbers and even when my health care cost less because I worked for someone else it still cost more than in these other places. thats it's